Curse

Ec]-[oMaN · Oct 28, 2008, 05:54 PM // 17:54

60 wins straight! Can I have whatever you're smoking in order to keep sitting through all those wins haha.

Tyla · Oct 28, 2008, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

So without arguing, if Rt is better, monk is still better than 7 other professions. Call the build bad makes no sense.

And why, for some reason unknown to me, every thinks that your team will play against 5 GvGers in the opposite team? Monk has Smite Condition and Smite Hex, and both of these are GREAT. In just about every game I'm doing AoE dmg which Rt can only do with Ancestors and even then..

The hexes or conditions likely to be smited off are those that will make the snared person less suspectable to dealing damage with. The only condition that avoids this is blind.

Crippling (which also should be covered by poison, or bleeding and deep wound), and the snares. Smiting off stuff like Faint is also slightly risky, as you may not notice in time.

Ritualist doesn't require a condition to be met to deal the damage, and at the same time is less suspectable to the damage being avoided through range. It also carries direct damage skills, and a skill that negates some damage off RoD.

Kha · Oct 28, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Highlight of the day:

I was playing my sin. On my team was a warrior, two dervishes, and a ranger. It was the small map with three shrines. I said we had to get battlecry and then the center. One of the dervishes was like "Energy is the most important. Need that and center." I laughed and was like: "So out of a four man melee team with a ranger, I'm the only one that wants Battlecry?" They laughed at me. I'm pretty sure they called me a noob too, but who knows. I was too busy laughing at them for wanting Energy shrine so badly.

Gregslot · Oct 28, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kha

Highlight of the day:

I was playing my sin. On my team was a warrior, two dervishes, and a ranger. It was the small map with three shrines. I said we had to get battlecry and then the center. One of the dervishes was like "Energy is the most important. Need that and center." I laughed and was like: "So out of a four man melee team with a ranger, I'm the only one that wants Battlecry?" They laughed at me. I'm pretty sure they called me a noob too, but who knows. I was too busy laughing at them for wanting Energy shrine so badly.

Must be the same dervish that told my team we should get energy shrine because energy is important (like speed boost isnt). He was dressed as Kahmu and had a scythe, right? Must be the same one.
At the end we lost because he was too busy getting energy for us all (ooh gee that sure saved the day!) that we got overruned by the pure melee group that got battlecry shrine.

I am giving up at Costume Brawl, there are too many players that think they are heman and will destroy the other team by themselves and forget that GUILD WARS IS A COOPERATIVE GAME (i know, its shocking, but it is!).
And just like RA, you have to pray to all 6 gods that you find other 3 competent players that actually know what they are doing, or even decent ones that will actually listen instead of saying stuff like "monk you suck because you cant heal" after charging at 5 players all by himself and not bothering capturing any shrine.
Im tired of assassins that think they are Naruto,warriors that think they are Heman or dervished that think that just because they are using a schyte they are death incarnate.

Servant of Kali · Oct 28, 2008, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Well I guess I'll be considered noob, but I did try Ritualist finally. And I still think Monk is better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

The hexes or conditions likely to be smited off are those that will make the snared person less suspectable to dealing damage with. The only condition that avoids this is blind.

Clarify more pls :)

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Ritualist doesn't require a condition to be met to deal the damage, and at the same time is less suspectable to the damage being avoided through range. It also carries direct damage skills, and a skill that negates some damage off RoD.

Monk is still better.

- There are always conditions and hexes, I wasn't in a game yet where I wouldn't be able to use Smite Hex or Smite Condition all the time.
- Monk is less suspectable to interrupts etc. Ritualist skills take longer.
- Monk has direct dmg skills too.

-------

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

In balance discussions you have to assume everyone that is playing is good.

To answer your question, this is why the Monk sucks for the last time:

Now, good players, get this: they don't ball up. If they don't ball up, your AoE isn't doing much. Even if they don't ball up (note: this includes AR too on the balling up or being close) good players are almost always split in this mode

*yawn*

I guess we will never agree.

Why? Because I'm debating on what profession is best in Costume Brawl.
And you debate on what profession would work best in 5v5 GvG with Costume Brawl builds.

Let me clarify:
- I don't play in CB teams consisting of 5 people who synced, vs 5 people who synced. I play in team A in which someone may have synched but not entire team, vs team B in which someone may have synched but not entire team.
- I prepare for what I encounter in CB. You prepare for what you would encounter in GvG, while in fact you're playing CB.
- You make theories of what would happen if. I look at how it goes in practice.

Why is it that every evening I login to GW to play CB I have endless matches without defeat, until I get tired and quit? Why is it that in the meantime others here can only complain about their teams being bad?

Ok, maybe I can put it this way - whatever profession in CB is better than monk, I'm not sure I need it, since with monk I beat everyone else anyway. Happy? ;)

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which means at most you're going to hit 2 people and that is if you're lucky. 70 damage is outhealed by every self heal in the game (of which only the Ranger, Monk, Paragon, and Necro don't have.

Theory. The actual game in practice isn't chalkboard.

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Reversal of Damage is a non-issue because it relies on someone hitting it. A good player is going to be able to notice which target gets RoD'd

:)))))))))))))))))))))

What you're saying has nothing to do with what actually happens in CB, in practice.
I'm sure these "Good players" you've talking about also never get interrupted by mesmer because they hit Escape and cancel action, then just recast the spell.
I'm sure these "Good players" never get knocked down by Bane Signet because just as the monk starts to cast it they stop attacking, and then continue half a second later.
And they never get hurt by Ranger elite skill since they always see it coming. Always.

And I'm sure they never got roundhouse kicked by Chuck Norris. They anticipated his swift move and dodged it.

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No one with an adequate skill level is going to sit on you and spam shit on you while you RoD yourself for all eternity unless if they are sure they can make it through.

They have to hit someone. If they don't hit someone, their teammates will.

I don't have to beat EVERY PLAYER in their team. My team needs to have more points than enemy team. It's as simple as that. That's what wins the game. Not if Chuck Norris or Rambo in enemy team dodged my RoD.

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Healing Breeze is only good if the enemy team has no Necromancer. Even if the enemy team does have a Necromancer, it's an incredibly ineffecient heal

Healing Breeze is great skill in Costume Brawl.

Necromancer doesn't hurt, Vigorious is stacked on top.

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but if they have 2 damage dealers that coordinate in even a mediocre manner, you're done for and it won't save you and neither will your RoD.

What about good players who can manouvre properly so they don't get overwhelmed, who can handle the pressure, who can... well, what about them? Suddenly gone?

I don't need to be one-man-army, I just need to make a difference.

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Smite Condition

Smite Hex:

So now that we've figured out that there's very little reason to use either because the damage is a non-issue

Wrong. You "figured it out".

Both are great skills in CB. You can develop theories as much as you want. But in battle the actual experience is what matters.

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In every other (read: much more likely) scenario

You deal with scenarios. I deal with actual gameplay.

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Now, if you can show me how a Monk is useful with good players using actual good tactics including splitting, knowing when to run away and be mobile, know how to kite

Sure, as soon as you show me 1 single game in Costume Brawl where you have your scenario.

Out of 50 games lets say. You can upload on YouTube or somewhere. Let me see what you're talking about.

In the meantime I can upload you as many of 25+ consecutive games with Monk as you want, the only limit is my time.

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But in a PvP game, you want the best builds so that you can win more.

We have a different definition of a best build.

To you, the best build is the one that wins rock-paper-scissors on a chalkboard.

To me, the best build is the one that is the best against enemies I am about to encounter.

Tyla · Oct 29, 2008, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Clarify more pls

If you're smiting off a snared target, you're doing f*** all.

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- There are always conditions and hexes, I wasn't in a game yet where I wouldn't be able to use Smite Hex or Smite Condition all the time.

The idea of condition and hex removal is to remove conditions or hexes that actually matter; unfortunately those that do matter harm the chance of actually dealing damage with the skill. There is no point smiting off degeneration, because it is just easily reapplied and does next to no damage.

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- Monk is less suspectable to interrupts etc. Ritualist skills take longer.

The only skills that are less suspectable to interrupts are Vig Spirit and RoD. Even then one is easily avoided and one has a weak chance of doing much at all when the majority of the skill bars are high damage bars. There's also hitting the WoW button before an encounter.

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- Monk has direct dmg skills too.

That doesn't compare to the Ritualist in any way. It's evident they have direct damage skills, the only problem is they are incredibly weak without FC. I don't think I've ate a single Bane Signet in CB at all, and every single SoJ got savaged or outhealed by Troll.

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In the meantime I can upload you as many of 25+ consecutive games with Monk as you want, the only limit is my time.

I hate to be a twat, but most of this games' players are bad.

illidan009 · Oct 29, 2008, 12:07 AM // 00:07

I. Hate. Rits. Except when I use them. Monks are awesome too of course. Sin(my main actually) is kinda crappy, necros own that shit...Paragons imo have THE crappiest bar...haven't seen an effective one yet. Dervishes are overrated too imo.

DokkyDok · Oct 29, 2008, 01:03 AM // 01:03

My favorite so far is the ritualist. I managed to get a team of three ritualists & two monks, and ended up with a 26 win streak before two of them left to turn in faction...

Numa Pompilius · Oct 29, 2008, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Finally took my warrior to CB. Damn the bar sucks. By far the worst bar of any of the ones I've tried so far, even worse than the mesmer bar. Should've realized something was wrong when all my other avatars found warriors the squishiest targets on the field.

Still haven't tried Derv, but they're definitely a lot harder to kill than warrs, so I'm hoping their bar isn't as ridiculous as a warr bar with Tiger Stance and (sweet jesus!) Shield Bash.

AKB48 · Oct 29, 2008, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Finally took my warrior to CB. Damn the bar sucks. By far the worst bar of any of the ones I've tried so far, even worse than the mesmer bar. Should've realized something was wrong when all my other avatars found warriors the squishiest targets on the field.

Still haven't tried Derv, but they're definitely a lot harder to kill than warrs, so I'm hoping their bar isn't as ridiculous as a warr bar with Tiger Stance and (sweet jesus!) Shield Bash.

War isn't THAT bad, yes, they lack condition removal, but they can be devestiating on caster targets if they're not properly prepared or you have some1 to back you up. I agree that it is weak, but that's only because each class is using only their skills, not skills from their second profession.

bhavv · Oct 29, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32

/Uninstall GW and prior to that delete every monk character on your account if you still think the monk build sucks.

<--- Numchuck Skillz whoopie!!!

People who still argue that the monk build sucks for GVG reasons are just getting served by the decent players who are pro at monking in CB. I played the Rit today. They are good but they have one problem - they cant heal fast enough. They can tank at shrines good BUT they actually take far longer to kill any attackers. Reversal of Damage, Smite Condition and Smite Hex are freaking awesome in CB. It doesnt matter which hex or condition is removed for balthazars sake - even if you use cure hex and dismiss condition you still face the same limitation of only removing the top one. The point is that the damage output is awesome, and yes, people ball up at shrines all the time durrrrr.

For once, why cant the uber pro GVGers leave lower end fun based PVP alone? The monk build is only as bad as the player behind it. In capable hands it is easilly the best build in CB this year (yes I played Rit, spammed heals and attacks and they kill slower then the monk).

I find that Healing Breeze / Vig Spirit and RoD spam is healing noticably better then wep of warding and wielders boon. Played both the builds, monk heals faster and is better at pushing red bars up, but has no block. BTW the Rit has no benefit of Divine Favor, and their only direct heal has a 4s cooldown. Monks are able to spam heals much faster and with no worry about energy if the energy shrine is capped.

Also preventing 70 damage with RoD is better then taking 70 damage then healing it afterwards - RoD spam > Shatterstone spike. By the definition of the monk build haters, everyone playing CB this year is a bad player roffle!

IlikeGW · Oct 29, 2008, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Finally took my warrior to CB. Damn the bar sucks. By far the worst bar of any of the ones I've tried so far, even worse than the mesmer bar. Should've realized something was wrong when all my other avatars found warriors the squishiest targets on the field.

Still haven't tried Derv, but they're definitely a lot harder to kill than warrs, so I'm hoping their bar isn't as ridiculous as a warr bar with Tiger Stance and (sweet jesus!) Shield Bash.

Wars are good actually. Considering you've got not just damage dealing and deep wound dealing, but an interrupt that disables skills, and also your rush will be charged to pull off bull's strike while you're attacking, so nobody but a very crafty player can kite you. You also have shield bash which is good to cover lion's comfort, and between those two you can actually pull off minor amount of tanking, just not a mob. It's not the most powerful build, but will compliment any other group so long as the player using it takes full advantage of the bar. Weakness is obviously they will die quickly alone most of the time.

bhavv · Oct 29, 2008, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Im going to be using a smiter / healer hybrid everywhere I go now - RoD, Smite Hex, Smite Condition, Castagion Signet Zealots Fire, WoH, D Kiss, any final skill (Ooooh, go go channeling). Works great in Hero Battles and RA, and I will try it in HM on my Monk as well.

I lerned how to play smite and keep my team alive at the same time woot lol, I am now a better monk. But dont worry, only my heroes will recieve my awesome healing and damage hybrid, I dont need to give it to scrubs who complain that smite is bad and 'OMG TEH TEAM CANT WIN WIF SMITE HEX SMITE CONDITION AND ROD U NUB MONK'.

Well, my team can cos I am pro monk, so screw you elitist pricks.

Tyla · Oct 29, 2008, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

/Uninstall GW and prior to that delete every monk character on your account if you still think the monk build sucks.

<--- Numchuck Skillz whoopie!!!

What. You're pretty confusing.

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People who still argue that the monk build sucks for GVG reasons are just getting served by the decent players who are pro at monking in CB. I played the Rit today. They are good but they have one problem - they cant heal fast enough. They can tank at shrines good BUT they actually take far longer to kill any attackers. Reversal of Damage, Smite Condition and Smite Hex are freaking awesome in CB. It doesnt matter which hex or condition is removed for balthazars sake - even if you use cure hex and dismiss condition you still face the same limitation of only removing the top one. The point is that the damage output is awesome, and yes, people ball up at shrines all the time durrrrr.

Healing fast enough isn't a problem. Not enough protting is. We're not arguing for GvG use, you're just being ignorant. People don't need to ball up that closely to capture a shrine.

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For once, why cant the uber pro GVGers leave lower end fun based PVP alone? The monk build is only as bad as the player behind it. In capable hands it is easilly the best build in CB this year (yes I played Rit, spammed heals and attacks and they kill slower then the monk).

That's just like saying that a W/Mo Healer is only as good as the player behind it; it's only going to work versus complete idiots.

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I find that Healing Breeze / Vig Spirit and RoD spam is healing noticably better then wep of warding and wielders boon. Played both the builds, monk heals faster and is better at pushing red bars up, but has no block. BTW the Rit has no benefit of Divine Favor, and their only direct heal has a 4s cooldown. Monks are able to spam heals much faster and with no worry about energy if the energy shrine is capped.

That's because Weapon of Warding is a protection based skill. To put it in your logic, "YOU MUST JUST SUCK WITH IT LOLOLOLOL". The protective layering of Weapon of Warding heavily outclasses RoD; considering it reduces total damage from Rangers, Dervs, Warriors, Assassins and Paragons. That's all of the classes which deal the most damage output in the entire thing, maybe excluding Paragons. Oh, and a Ranger can outpressure your HB easily; or even D-Shot it.

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Also preventing 70 damage with RoD is better then taking 70 damage then healing it afterwards - RoD spam > Shatterstone spike. By the definition of the monk build haters, everyone playing CB this year is a bad player roffle!

Spamming RoD makes an easy target for a D-Shot. RoD can't outdamage the Elementalist unless you predict Glyph of Restoration correctly, and even then you can cancel the skill; one second is a lot of time to be noticed. I don't think I've ate a single Bane Signet in my time of playing CB at all either...

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Im going to be using a smiter / healer hybrid everywhere I go now - RoD, Smite Hex, Smite Condition, Castagion Signet Zealots Fire, WoH, D Kiss, any final skill. Works great in Hero Battles and RA, and I will try it in HM on my Monk as well.

I lerned how to play smite and keep my team alive at the same time woot lol, I am now a better monk. But dont worry, only my heroes will recieve my awesome healing and damage hybrid, I dont need to give it to scrubs who complain that smite is bad and 'OMG TEH TEAM CANT WIN WIF SMITE HEX SMITE CONDITION AND ROD U NUB MONK'.

Well, my team can cos I am pro monk, so screw you elitist pricks.

When you play against someone who's not a complete idiot, you'll be regretting this. Oh, and PSpirit > DKiss.

Hell Raiser · Oct 29, 2008, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Anyone know the record here? Got 62 wins Sunday, by 45 wins I was the only original player though, and we had to win 4v5 twice. We finally got rolled 20 - 11 by a 4 monk team (looking back at the last screen I took of their team, two of the Monks were from [YaRR], guessing they synced).

bhavv · Oct 29, 2008, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Tyla, seriously just get over it. You are being far more ignorant yourself for refusing to accept the possitives of the build.

People are always balled up close enough for smite condition and hex, and yes, I outdamaged an elementalist who was using Glyph of Restoration with the monk. You maybe cant yourself, but please carry on complaining about a great smite build because of how much you dislike smite monks for whatever reason.

Weapon of warding is useless against spellcasters and far easier to D shot then RoD, so your argument that RoD can be D shotted fails because Weapon of Warding can always be D Shotted by a half decent ranger.

D shot wep of Warding, the rit now sucks donkey balls and is dead soon. D shot the monks healing breeze, and they still have better survivability left with their 1/4s cast skills.

P.S, never ever needed prot skills to win games in arenas with a HC pure healer. And in PVE I can have it on a hero. You fail at thinking outside the box, Prot Spirit is not required on everysingle monks skill bar all the time. I enjoy playing new builds, not the same old ones again and again.

I have been highly succesful with a HC healing breeze / vig spirit / patient spirit monk in all areas of the game. They push red bars up on an epic scale and also never run out of energy when used right.

But yea, healing breeze still sux because you say so.

There are plenty more succesful builds in GW other then ones used in GVG, and it looks like smiting is going to become a lot more popular now thanks to the costume brawl (hybrid it with healing spells FTW).

HawkofStorms · Oct 29, 2008, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Agreed Tyla. Just stop.
I ran into a team with 4 monks and one warrior today. They were pretty much unstopable (no way to kill em, even with mesmers and rangers on our team there is no way you can shut down all of them at once).

Tyla · Oct 29, 2008, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Tyla, seriously just get over it. You are being far more ignorant yourself for refusing to accept the possitives of the build.

I've posted reasons which render certain aspects of the build useless in certain situations.

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People are always balled up close enough for smite condition and hex, and yes, I outdamaged an elementalist who was using Glyph of Restoration with the monk. You maybe cant yourself, but please carry on complaining about a great smite build because of how much you dislike smite monks for whatever reason.

Oh, Smite Monks are okay. They're just not generally viable for 4v4, or 5v5. Especially when things like Smiters' Boon aren't around.

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Weapon of warding is useless against spellcasters and far easier to D shot then RoD, so your argument that RoD can be D shotted fails because Weapon of Warding can always be D Shotted by a half decent ranger.

When you're spamming RoD, RoD becomes easy to interrupt. WoW, on the other hand can be used pre-fight and have a chance to be put on again through blocking. Healing Breeze can be done the same way, but when you have to reapply or put on someone else, it's an easy target no matter what.

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D shot wep of Warding, the rit now sucks donkey balls and is dead soon. D shot the monks healing breeze, and they still have better survivability left with their 1/4s cast skills.

Who said you can't burn their interrupts off with cheap skills aswell? 5E is next to nothing for CC. In that process, they either burn an interrupt on it and you cancel, or you gain health.

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P.S, never ever needed prot skills to win games in arenas with a HC pure healer. And in PVE I can have it on a hero. You fail at thinking outside the box, Prot Spirit is not required on everysingle monks skill bar all the time. I enjoy playing new builds, not the same old ones again and again.

Protective Spirit? I was talking about Patient Spirit. The thing that made HC so powerful was the bug with the Spotless skills. Just because something is thought outside the box doesn't make it good automatically, originality isn't efficiency.

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There are plenty more succesful builds in GW other then ones used in GVG.

It's funny you jump onto this exact same point when I'm not referring to GvG on single bit.

Oh, and Smiters are already used.

Divine Boon
Castigation Signet
Smite Hex
Smite Condition
Reversal of Damage
Empathic Removal
-Whatev-
-Whatev-

bhavv · Oct 29, 2008, 02:53 AM // 02:53

You describe the build as useless in situations that can not relate to CB, obviously you are thinking of it as a GVG build.

The build is far from useless in CB, but of course, you refuse to accept how well it works and just use 'the other players were bad' as your same lame argument all the time. Every other player cant be bad in CB, it is because the build is brilliant in CB. Your arguments about smite hex and condition are totally ridiculous and just showing that you either are not even playing CB, or if you are then you must be playing with your eyes shut.

This whole thread is ruined by yours and Darknecrids ignorance and you both obviously havnt got the slightest clue about the costume brawl.

Tyla · Oct 29, 2008, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

You describe the build as useless in situations that can not relate to CB, obviously you are thinking of it as a GVG build.

How so? CB is a 5v5 game format that requires a certain amount of splitting. What situation are you talking about here? A Ranger is an incredible tool to send on a split, and can take advantage of many situations. And although I am going onto a GvG situation of a split group (let's just say Melshot / Evis / Rit taking out Shock, Frenzy, Mending Touch, Channeled Strike and Dash), it's pretty much identicle to a possible split group. Another thing you can use is an Ele in this equation. The Ritualist offers a certain amount of defense that the Smiter doesn't. Sure, you can Bane Signet things, but the amount of times I've avoided eating a Bane Signet is pretty insane. If Smiting is so good and underrated as you say, try and get a Smiter Flagrunner involved and then you're talking. Oh, and unless splitting isn't a tactic used in both GvG, HB and CB there must have been some undocumented change.

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The build is far from useless in CB, but of course, you refuse to accept how well it works and just use 'the other players were bad' as your same lame argument all the time.

Now you're talking out of your arse. I've gone past "the other players were bad" several times, but if you wish to avoid arguments that you've argued against in your own posts, so be it. You've argued against my points several times in this thread, and if it was really "the other players were bad" over and over and over, you'd have simply ignored me by now. Not to mention I didn't say that once in my last post.

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Every other player cant be bad in CB, it is because the build is brilliant in CB. Your arguments about smite hex and condition are totally ridiculous and just showing that you either are not even playing CB, or if you are then you must be playing with your eyes shut.

If you're snared, then getting to an enemy for the damage to be worth it wouldn't be as easily placed. Snares are either covered or spammable in CB. Faintheartedness has a recharge smaller than that of Smite Hex, and if you don't get to it in time it's going to be covered and you're smiting a bitch hex off.

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This whole thread is ruined by yours and Darknecrids ignorance and you both obviously havnt got the slightest clue about the costume brawl.

Considering you haven't responded to a single point of Darks' incredibly huge post which has far, far more detail than mine, it's really proving that you know less about CB than him. If he's really clueless about it, elaborate.